Can “Dominance” be learned?

[11:14]  Vannesh Cannoli: ok welcome to another Saturday meeting of the Kinkster Munch, our biweekly meeting group to discuss bdsm related topics
[11:14]  Vannesh Cannoli: in a nice Irish evironment 😛
[11:15]  Coby Constellation: are we on voice? or just type
[11:15]  Vannesh Cannoli: just type
[11:15]  Coby Constellation: ok np
[11:15]  Vannesh Cannoli: Today’s discussion is “Can domination” be learned or is it something that is innate to the person.
[11:16]  Vannesh Cannoli: This was a topic suggested by Miss San Mauvaise of the Cellar Club I believe, Lex?
[11:16]  Lex Berchot: aye Vanni 🙂
[11:16]  Coby Constellation: Great topic btw
[11:16]  Ali Akami: yes it is
[11:16]  Lex Berchot: it basically came forth out of a discussion .. on how places like the Cellar could attract better (and perhaps more) Dommes.
[11:16]  Vannesh Cannoli: as the facilitator of the discussion I will just give a few introductory ideas, and then as we have a good crowd here we will throw it open to the group
[11:17]  Coby Constellation: I have probably got into more arguments(DIscussions) 🙂 on this Topic
[11:17]  Vannesh Cannoli: Let me start by saying that “Dominance” means different things to different people, so there is hardly, as is the wont in the BDSM scene, any kind of “right’ answer here
[11:18]  Vannesh Cannoli: By saying “Domination” do we mean a strict D/s or M/s relationship, in which the sub/slave has given over most power over their lives to the Dom/me?
[11:18]  Vannesh Cannoli: or are we talking about a particular scene in which the Dom/me “tops” the other, but after the conclusion of the scene the power exchange is ended?
[11:19]  Vannesh Cannoli: Or something in between?
[11:19]  Vannesh Cannoli: Also, some people totally equate “Topping” with “Domination”
[11:19]  Vannesh Cannoli: Speaking only for myself, I tend to see the two as seperate issues…..I see ‘Topping’ as what happens in a scene, but that person does not have to be one’s Dom/me to be the Top
[11:20]  Vannesh Cannoli: Hi, nova!
[11:20]  Vannesh Cannoli: But again, that is my opinion, and hardly conclusive on the topic.
[11:20]  nova Coba: Hello sorry I am late (just logged on)
[11:21]  Vannesh Cannoli: Now, if we speak of Dominance as *dominating* a person in a D/s relationship, can that be learned? Also, how would that relate to Topping?
[11:21]  Coby Constellation: I find that I can Dom some girls but others i cant
[11:22]  Vannesh Cannoli: In my opinion, I think that in dicussions with each other, a ‘Top’ and a
[11:22]  Coby Constellation: or they wont allow me to anyways
[11:22]  Vannesh Cannoli: ‘Bottom’ can find mutually satisfactory ways to please each other, and so that level of interaction can be learned and improved.
[11:22]  Vannesh Cannoli: I”m not a sure about being a Dom/me though.
[11:23]  Teague Wirefly: Welcome Nova
[11:23]  nova Coba: Thank you.
[11:23]  Vannesh Cannoli: To be a Dominant I think takes a certain type of personality, one that is hopefully a mix of discipline and nurturing.
[11:24]  Coby Constellation: So the Question i see is can it be learned?
[11:24]  Sammy Thielt: For me a simplistic way to think about it … I am sure I can be taught to run a cash register at McDonald’s, and it might even be fun or at least simple for a short while. but that doesnt mean its a life-long, full-time aspiration 🙂 No matter how had they try, I doubt McDonald’s can train me to love it forever.
[11:24]  Sammy Thielt: hard*
[11:25]  Coby Constellation: No but if you choose to do that job you could do it right
[11:25]  Vannesh Cannoli: That’s exactly the point I think, Miss. There is both the innate desire to be a Dom/me and the techniques of being a Dom/me.
[11:25]  Ali Akami: I think one can learn technigues/tricks/approachs but there needs to be a basic underlying talent or makeup
[11:25]  Teague Wirefly: And I think it depends on the person you were with. I have submissive tendancies. However, some people bring out my more domme side. I think I read their needs, and adjust myself accordingly.
[11:26]  Mirella Dallagio: I wouldn’ tcall it a talent
[11:26]  Vannesh Cannoli: That’s how I feel in RL, Teague.
[11:26]  Mirella Dallagio: it’s a nature
[11:26]  Mirella Dallagio: would you say you have a talent to be submissive ?
[11:26]  Mirella Dallagio: you have that nature, or you haven’t, or you have more or less
[11:26]  Coby Constellation: If you are a Master… means you are good at something… like a talent
[11:26]  Vannesh Cannoli: I’m a college instructor…with my class I take on a very dominant role, and don’t take their crap…HOwever, with my superiors I’m passive and just do what I’m told. So the situation demands certain thigns.
[11:26]  Teague Wirefly: there is a difference in mastering something
[11:27]  Teague Wirefly: and being called a master
[11:27]  Coby Constellation: I think God gives us all some kinda of Talent
[11:27]  Ali Akami: We all say that a sub is a sub in theor heart why would it be anydifferent for a Dom/me it jsut has to be in you. at least the basic need to nurture and then it can be developed
[11:27]  Coby Constellation: Now i know that in the relationship God has put the man over the woman or thats the way its suppose to be
[11:28]  Velicia Llewellyn purses her lips
[11:28]  Mirella Dallagio: I’d leave God where it pertains
[11:28]  Vannesh Cannoli giggles
[11:28]  Mirella Dallagio: not here
[11:28]  Ali Akami: ohhhhhhhh careful Coby
[11:28]  Vannesh Cannoli: Hi, sheri!
[11:28]  Coby Constellation: so is every man that God made a Dom?
[11:28]  Lex Berchot: Coby only in the eyes of *christian* docterine.
[11:28]  Vannesh Cannoli: I guess then the ones he didn’t make are the male subbies? 😛
[11:28]  Coby Constellation: Lex thats a good point but thats not a point to be excuesed
[11:28]  Ali Akami: i don’t think the sex of the person has anything to do with it
[11:29]  Coby Constellation: THis is where i say you have a choice to do things
[11:30]  Coby Constellation: Where does the line go from being a Lighter Dom to a Great Dom?
[11:30]  Teague Wirefly: no. i know several submissive males. that doesn’t make me question their religious beliefs. In fact… I did make a few call out for their maker….
[11:30]  Teague Wirefly: 😉
[11:30]  Strider Wisent: 🙂
[11:30]  Lyssa Varun giggles
[11:30]  Ali Akami laughs
[11:30]  Vannesh Cannoli: I think it’s also important to note that about any relationship has some level of D/s to it…even between a Boss and his/her co-workers, or in any romantic relationship, or even among friends….one usually has the leadership over the others.
[11:30]  Coby Constellation: Teague one day everyone will bow down to the one True God
[11:30]  Velicia Llewellyn chuckles
[11:31]  Mirella Dallagio: I thought it was a conversation about BDSM, not religion
[11:31]  Velicia Llewellyn: Which one would that be Coby?
[11:31]  Vannesh Cannoli: OK this is not a Christian service, so I will have to ask that furhter mentions to God be left out of the picture please.
[11:31]  Coby Constellation: Jesus Christ
[11:31]  Lyssa Varun: true or not it has little bearing on this discussion
[11:31]  Coby Constellation: Well you cant leave out your maker
[11:31]  Vannesh Cannoli: AS I said, further references to God will be left out.
[11:31]  Coby Constellation: If your going to talk about wheither or not someone is Born a Dom or not?
[11:31]  Vannesh Cannoli turns on the Domme
[11:32]  Sammy Thielt: Coby, you’ve done your evangelical duty… but I promise, you’re gonna hit a brick wall here if you continue. 🙂
[11:32]  Ali Akami nods
[11:32]  Coby Constellation: Im not pushing anything on anyone …
[11:32]  Vannesh Cannoli: now if we can get back on topic
[11:32]  Mirella Dallagio: Don’t try to see how much I am disliking you coby
[11:32]  Mirella Dallagio: it could go way further than you expect
[11:33]  Teague Wirefly: Ok! Group hug!
[11:33]  Coby Constellation: Thats fine Im use to it
[11:33]  Teague Wirefly: hugs hugs hugs hugs
[11:33]  Strider Wisent: 🙂
[11:33]  Ali Akami smiles
[11:33]  Ali Akami: good idea
[11:33]  Velicia Llewellyn pownces Teague and hugs
[11:33]  Teague Wirefly: and now… back to our regularally scheduled program
[11:33]  Teague Wirefly: mmmmmm
[11:33]  Teague Wirefly: thank you
[11:33]  Teague Wirefly: i love pounces :S
[11:33]  Teague Wirefly: 😀
[11:33]  Velicia Llewellyn: 😀
[11:33]  Vannesh Cannoli: If domination is say an inborn trait, then what I would say what is being learned is the techniques of BDSM.
[11:33]  Lex Berchot runs around the room and pounces snuggles everyone int o submission.
[11:34]  Vannesh Cannoli: Refining and focusing what is contained within.
[11:34]  Ali Akami: let’s look at anotehr skill idea like artsist painting
[11:34]  Ali Akami: I can buy oils and cnavas
[11:34]  Ali Akami: the instruction books
[11:34]  Vannesh Cannoli: But, if every person is born a blank slate, “Tabula Rasa” inthe philosophical sense, then the very “Dom/me” nature itself is leanred somehow
[11:35]  Ali Akami: but if I don’t have a certain inner talent I could never really paint
[11:35]  Ali Akami: i can play at painting
[11:35]  Vannesh Cannoli: Good point!
[11:35]  Mirella Dallagio: I think that, as a nature you have, it’s something you discover about yourself
[11:35]  Mirella Dallagio: and then develop
[11:35]  Ali Akami: it’s the same with being a dom/me
[11:35]  Ali Akami: there has to be a very basic fire in side
[11:35]  Ali Akami: one that be fanned and made to grow
[11:35]  Ali Akami: but the fire needs to be there
[11:36]  Mirella Dallagio: yup, it can stay there uncared and remain hidden
[11:36]  Mirella Dallagio: or manifest indirectly
[11:36]  Mirella Dallagio: or be explored, grow
[11:36]  Ali Akami: as it did in my years
[11:36]  Mirella Dallagio: become realized
[11:36]  Ali Akami: me*
[11:36]  Vannesh Cannoli: But, speaking as Devil’s adovcate….could you learn the technique of painting so passibly that people would say “wow, great art!”
[11:36]  Mirella Dallagio: I think that’s the wrong question vanni
[11:36]  Ali Akami: i don’t think so
[11:36]  Lyssa Varun: to me it is more a question of degrees… like other things… it’s in us all but stronger in some than others
[11:37]  Mirella Dallagio: the right question is how to develop your traits in a way right for you and your partner
[11:37]  Coby Constellation: You can improve your Artistic skills but takes Talent to make a great Artist
[11:37]  Mirella Dallagio: is there “one” good domination ?
[11:37]  Mirella Dallagio: a criteria ?
[11:37]  Ali Akami: no each must match the sub
[11:37]  Ali Akami: that’s when communications comes into play
[11:37]  Coby Constellation: are we saying that being a Dom is an Art form?
[11:37]  Vannesh Cannoli: well no, there is no “right” way to be a Dom/me or a sub
[11:37]  Mirella Dallagio: so you can’t have a ‘great dom’, just the rigth one
[11:38]  Teague Wirefly: and – i believe that a good dom/me – has spent much time learning. perfecting. they have expereinced life as a sub.
[11:38]  Ali Akami: oh i agree with you there Teague
[11:38]  Mirella Dallagio: yep
[11:38]  Vannesh Cannoli: hmmm…so there is no objective criteria for what makes a “good Dom/me?” just what the two or more people involved subjectively think?
[11:38]  Coby Constellation: Has anyone known any Subs that became Doms?
[11:38]  Sammy Thielt: just like the beauty of the artwork is in the eye of the beholder. tastes vary, finding a talented person that meets your tastes is the only way something is “good”
[11:38]  Mirella Dallagio: knowledge and experience are always part of a sane evolutive path
[11:38]  Teague Wirefly: many
[11:38]  Lyssa Varun: being ‘great’ though is a matter of perspective… one Dom/me will not be percieved as great to all subs
[11:39]  Velicia Llewellyn: Yes, Coby
[11:39]  Ali Akami: yes ME
[11:39]  Mirella Dallagio: tons of them coby
[11:39]  Velicia Llewellyn: My Miss, for one 😉
[11:39]  Coby Constellation: ok this is good imformation … then can you conclude that i person can become a Dom if they wanted to?
[11:39]  Lex Berchot: I have known several people who were submissive before becoming Dom/me.
[11:39]  Vannesh Cannoli: and Dom/mes that become subs!
[11:39]  Ali Akami: and being a sub was the greatest learning experience
[11:39]  Lex Berchot: I also known Dommes that became subbies, and I know people who are either *just* Domme or just subbie.
[11:40]  Mirella Dallagio: all stays in which ‘seeds’ you have at first
[11:40]  Mirella Dallagio: you may have both sides and discover one first
[11:40]  Lyssa Varun: they are not mutually exclusive in my own opinion and experience
[11:40]  Mirella Dallagio: the other then
[11:40]  Teague Wirefly: A good dom/me, in my opinion – is one that takes the time to know the needs of the sub. that provides for those needs. that teaches the sub and gives them experiences to grow from.
[11:40]  Ali Akami: it also gretly depends on the other person in the relationship
[11:40]  Vannesh Cannoli: I agree completely Teague
[11:40]  Teague Wirefly: a trule good dom is serving the sub as much or more than the sub is serving the dom/me
[11:40]  Coby Constellation: Does the Dom love the sub?
[11:41]  Teague Wirefly: *truly
[11:41]  Teague Wirefly: they can
[11:41]  Vannesh Cannoli: Let’s try to quantify “love?” 😛
[11:41]  Teague Wirefly: there has to be a level of caring at least – or in my opinion
[11:41]  Ali Akami: oh gees
[11:41]  Ali Akami: do we have a few days for that?
[11:41]  Mirella Dallagio: “is ‘take care’ more appropriate” ?
[11:41]  Vannesh Cannoli: Kidding! I kid!! 😛
[11:41]  Lyssa Varun: it’s not required either
[11:41]  Ali Akami: lol
[11:41]  Lex Berchot giggles and starts to make sandwhiches in case people get the munchies
[11:42]  Lyssa Varun: in fact for some in would get in the way
[11:42]  Teague Wirefly: i think – for me – it would be the difference between a top/bottom scene
[11:42]  Velicia Llewellyn noms a sammich
[11:42]  Vannesh Cannoli: ahh good point
[11:42]  Teague Wirefly: and a true d/s relationship
[11:42]  Ali Akami: i think Vanni used the perfect word “nurturing” that has to be be there
[11:42]  Vannesh Cannoli: A top and a bottom don’t have to even really care for each other in any emtional way
[11:42]  Teague Wirefly: sexactly
[11:42]  Vannesh Cannoli: but I wouldn’t get in any D/s relationship, on either side, without caring for the other and expecting care to be given back
[11:43]  Teague Wirefly: i could meet someone in a playroom and we could have an amazing scene without caring about each other
[11:43]  Lyssa Varun: well said
[11:43]  Mirella Dallagio: same as you could have sex
[11:43]  Sammy Thielt: a “one night stand”
[11:43]  Teague Wirefly: but to go to a deeper, fulfilling sexperience – a relationship has to be there
[11:43]  Teague Wirefly: sexactly
[11:43]  Mirella Dallagio: but wihtout a relationship of any kind
[11:44]  Ali Akami: a sub needs ot serve and a Dom/me needs to nurture – i think that’s what makes th edifference between the two
[11:44]  Lyssa Varun: play scenes are very different from a D/s relationship though
[11:44]  Vannesh Cannoli: So perhaps a “good Dom/me” cares about the other and wants to nurture the submissive…but as Mir pointed out, the nature of that relationship is contingent on what the two want and desire
[11:44]  Velicia Llewellyn: I think one of the great issues here is that D/s or BDSM is such an umbrella term… it encompasses so many different activities and fetishes…
[11:44]  Mirella Dallagio: well velicia
[11:44]  Ali Akami: yes !
[11:45]  Mirella Dallagio: D/s defines a relationship
[11:45]  Mirella Dallagio: that’s out of doubts
[11:45]  Velicia Llewellyn: So two people meeting for just a scene isn’t D/s?
[11:45]  Mirella Dallagio: no
[11:45]  Ali Akami: no
[11:46]  Ali Akami: that’s just play
[11:46]  Lyssa Varun: no, it’s more of a Top/bottom thing as Vanni mentioned earlier
[11:46]  Vannesh Cannoli: Ali, I also think though that the sub has to nurture the Dom/me as well…a sub that just takes and takes emotionally is a vampire, or what a friend of mine calls “Using one’s domme as a vibrator”
[11:46]  Velicia Llewellyn nods at Vanni
[11:46]  Teague Wirefly: yes – i agree vannesh
[11:46]  Ali Akami: hehe
[11:46]  Vannesh Cannoli: A scene like that, Vel, would be more B/D or S/M rather than D/s
[11:46]  Ali Akami: some image
[11:46]  Lex Berchot wonders how that would fit.
[11:46]  Velicia Llewellyn: Good point
[11:46]  Vannesh Cannoli: heh heh
[11:46]  Lex Berchot: someone .. hand me the baconlube!!!
[11:46]  Lex Berchot: *squealch*
[11:47]  Vannesh Cannoli gives Lex a baconbuttie
[11:47]  Ali Akami: well there always needs to be balance a give and take I was refering to the very core of the person
[11:47]  Lex Berchot: ❤
[11:47]  Sammy Thielt: wondering if we’re straying too much into definitions, and not talking enough about whether and how someone can learn to be a dom/me – either learning to like it, or learning the techniques.
[11:47]  Teague Wirefly: again – that goes back to the relationship. if you care about someone – you are going to want to nurture and support them
[11:48]  Ali Akami: yes
[11:48]  Vannesh Cannoli: To use the workplace analogy, Miss, I’ve been told I should think about going into Administration by some people at the college
[11:48]  Vannesh Cannoli: they tell me I’d make a good Dept. Chair or a Dean, or even more
[11:48]  Vannesh Cannoli: but I don’t want to
[11:48]  Vannesh Cannoli: I don’t *feel* the need to have that level of control beyond my classroom
[11:48]  Vannesh Cannoli: so even if I could do it right, it wouldn’t be part of me
[11:49]  Mirella Dallagio: they were sent by your students vanni <g>
[11:49]  Vannesh Cannoli: I could *learn* how to be a good Dean
[11:49]  Sammy Thielt: lets assume the desire to dom/me is there… either short or long-term, with a current partner or as a general aspiration. how does one make the next step?
[11:49]  Vannesh Cannoli: but I wouldn’t *want* to be a dean
[11:49]  Ali Akami: lol
[11:49]  Teague Wirefly: Sammy – i think it is both. You can have the trait there – but if you don’t tend it and help it to grow – it will never fully manifest itself
[11:49]  Mirella Dallagio: To go back to the tecniques …
[11:49]  Mirella Dallagio: I think we can make an analogy between D/s relationship and sentimental ones
[11:49]  Mirella Dallagio: there’s nto a “way” to learn to love
[11:50]  Teague Wirefly: and – as i have gone to classes – and learned – i think that i am a much better sub and domme than i could have been before
[11:50]  Ali Akami: and you grow it by studing and falling on your face – university of hard knocks is a great teacher
[11:50]  Mirella Dallagio: yet, there are many ways to learn abotu pleasant sex
[11:50]  Vannesh Cannoli: yep
[11:50]  Mirella Dallagio: so …
[11:50]  Mirella Dallagio: there are tecniques you can use allong a relationship
[11:50]  Mirella Dallagio: but they are something you put in
[11:50]  Mirella Dallagio: not something that make it
[11:50]  Mirella Dallagio: you can be good at bend your sub temporarily
[11:50]  Mirella Dallagio: but that is nothing good if there isn’t underlying respect for sub’s will
[11:51]  Mirella Dallagio: you can use that as a bridge to let her achieve an experience
[11:51]  Mirella Dallagio: or to go against her needs
[11:51]  Mirella Dallagio: tecniques aren’t good or bad
[11:51]  Mirella Dallagio: so they can’t make something ‘good’
[11:51]  Ali Akami nods
[11:51]  Mirella Dallagio: they can make it more powerful, hence adding responsibility
[11:51]  Sammy Thielt: right but I think we all agree with that. But what -concrete- steps are there after one knows they desire to domme?
[11:52]  Vannesh Cannoli: buy a whip?
[11:52]  Vannesh Cannoli giggles
[11:52]  Lyssa Varun giggles
[11:52]  Ali Akami: be a sub for a awhile and see the other side
[11:52]  Vannesh Cannoli: Well I guess one would have to talk to the other and see
[11:52]  Vannesh Cannoli: a lot of interest in BDSM in RL does start in bedroom games after all
[11:52]  Sammy Thielt: I just get the feeling the group all agrees with so many points… yes desire must be there, yes you must want to please your partner… let’s get “real” now.
[11:52]  Vannesh Cannoli: and starts to progress from there
[11:53]  Mirella Dallagio: as vanni said, dominant/submissive roles aren’t segregated to private life,
[11:53]  Vannesh Cannoli: if they feel comfortable with it
[11:53]  Mirella Dallagio: they are traits you have 360 degrees
[11:53]  Mirella Dallagio: so you can explore part of them even outside a relationship
[11:53]  Mirella Dallagio: and understand which of them are “yours” or not
[11:53]  Lyssa Varun: it’s really dependent on the situation though how one would progress in pursuing that path
[11:54]  Lyssa Varun: learning is always good though… reading, courses, talking to those with experience… sharing ideas with groups like this 🙂
[11:54]  Mirella Dallagio: … then buy a big whip
[11:54]  Ali Akami laughs
[11:54]  Mirella Dallagio: and see if you can weld it or others are able to let you give it to them to be used on you
[11:55]  Lyssa Varun giggles
[11:55]  Mirella Dallagio: if the second happens … you are not very dominant ^^
[11:55]  Lyssa Varun: or very switchy 😉
[11:55]  Ali Akami: i don’t own a whip and I am very much D/s
[11:55]  Ali Akami: we’re back to the BDSM vs D/s thing
[11:55]  Lex Berchot: well Miss Ali .. you simply *Must* go out and buy one. 😉
[11:55]  Lyssa Varun: those are only tools… one creates art in many mediums, with varying tools
[11:55]  Ali Akami laughs
[11:55]  Lex Berchot falls over backwads giggling
[11:56]  Sammy Thielt: I think that a good outcome of this talk, in line with how the topic got suggested, would be some very clear “next steps” we could all give out. Imagine vanni there… pretend that she has never had much experience with BDSM, and has just said she feels like she wants to try and be a domme. What would you suggest to her?
[11:56]  Coby Constellation: got to run take care everyone
[11:56]  Vannesh Cannoli: ciao Coby
[11:56]  Mirella Dallagio: oh, if you really know how to use a whip … you know the biggest work is done while it’s still coiled ^^
[11:56]  Ali Akami: bye Coby
[11:56]  Teague Wirefly: bye Coby
[11:57]  Lyssa Varun: there are some (of us) that do D/s training that can help in those early steps
[11:57]  Teague Wirefly: i am actually very new in bdsm d/s. have no rl sexperience – only sl
[11:57]  Lex Berchot finds that really hard to imagine of Vanni .. no experience with bdsm 😉
[11:57]  Teague Wirefly: lol
[11:57]  Ali Akami grins
[11:57]  Mirella Dallagio: ooooh really vanni ?
[11:57]  Vannesh Cannoli looks dignified anyway
[11:57]  Mirella Dallagio: (nice choker)
[11:57]  Lyssa Varun giggles
[11:57]  Lex Berchot: we love you anyway Sis!
[11:58]  Sammy Thielt: i volunteered her since she’s a central focus here 🙂
[11:58]  Vannesh Cannoli: Well many of us in this room are either Dom/me or take on a Dom/me role, so how did we start?
[11:58]  Ali Akami: pure accident lol
[11:58]  Sammy Thielt: For me, the very next thing I’d tell her is that her feelings are very common and natural, and that it can be wonderfully rewarding.
[11:59]  Lyssa Varun: there you go nurturing 😉
[11:59]  Mirella Dallagio: Speaking of myself, I got to acknowledge two things
[11:59]  Mirella Dallagio: one that I reject *badly* to any attempt to be controlled
[11:59]  Lyssa Varun: but that’s good
[12:00]  Mirella Dallagio: the other that I seek to have control in what I have around
[12:00]  Mirella Dallagio: this is halfway to be a dom
[12:00]  Lyssa Varun: control issues are quite another subject… one we should discuss at some point too
[12:00]  Mirella Dallagio: or to be an abuser
[12:00]  Mirella Dallagio: the differecne is in the respect you have for others
[12:00]  Ali Akami: correct
[12:01]  Mirella Dallagio: what I mean is,
[12:01]  Mirella Dallagio: what to do really starts from what you understand about yourself
[12:02]  Lyssa Varun: the other part of those next steps is finding out what it is specifically they like or are looking for from a D/s relationship
[12:02]  Lyssa Varun: to help decide which tools to buy 😉
[12:02]  Lyssa Varun giggles
[12:02]  Ali Akami: hehe
[12:03]  Mirella Dallagio: “Long leash or short leash” ? ^^
[12:03]  Teague Wirefly: roflmao
[12:03]  Ali Akami: <—admires Lyssa’s single focus 🙂
[12:03]  Lex Berchot: vari-leash 😛
[12:03]  Teague Wirefly: who here really uses a leash?
[12:03]  Velicia Llewellyn raises hand
[12:03]  Mirella Dallagio: there’s always one
[12:03]  Ali Akami: me
[12:03]  Lex Berchot: Lyssa ;~)
[12:03]  Ali Akami: all the time
[12:03]  sheri Dryke: me
[12:03]  Mirella Dallagio: phisical or not
[12:03]  sheri Dryke: both
[12:03]  Lyssa Varun: having a clear idea of what they want/need is going to enable them to communicate that to the sub
[12:03]  Ali Akami: yup
[12:03]  Sammy Thielt: I think vanni might drift away from her potential life as a domme if we dont give her some more education…. 🙂
[12:04]  Teague Wirefly: lol – i have an aversion to them… so we don’t
[12:04]  Lyssa Varun: and find a compatible sub for that matter
[12:04]  Vannesh Cannoli starts to drift off to the slave pen
[12:04]  Teague Wirefly: LOLOL Vanni
[12:04]  Lyssa Varun giggles
[12:04]  Vannesh Cannoli: Generally Miss, whenver people show any interest in BDSM, I give them some reading material on the whole topic
[12:04]  Ali Akami: a leash is a great pschological tool to set the relationship
[12:05]  Teague Wirefly: i witnessed a young child on a leash once… broke my heart….
[12:05]  Vannesh Cannoli: And if they say “I’m interested in being a Dom/me” I think the first question I would ask them would be “what do you see your role as being?”
[12:05]  Mirella Dallagio: yikes … that’s a crime teague not a sane thing between adults
[12:06]  Vannesh Cannoli: Some might see it more as nurturing and guidence, others might see it as more into the B/D or S/M side
[12:06]  Ali Akami: my first reaction is to reach for a collar
[12:06]  Lex Berchot remebers a Domme at the Cellar Club the other day who “thought she needed a slave .. because her sister said/thought she needed one”
[12:06]  Teague Wirefly: Ali – your first reaction to what?
[12:06]  Vannesh Cannoli: oh yeah….
[12:07]  Mirella Dallagio hears lex and pouts at the quote
[12:07]  Ali Akami: collar anyone who wants information about D/s- BDSM
[12:07]  Vannesh Cannoli: collar them? really?
[12:07]  Ali Akami: fastest way to learn
[12:07]  Mirella Dallagio: just the time to explain them all ali, right ? ^^
[12:07]  Ali Akami: training collar
[12:08]  Teague Wirefly: but – a collar – imho – is a contract of sorts
[12:08]  Lex Berchot: Why the pout Mir?
[12:08]  Teague Wirefly: a beginning point
[12:08]  Mirella Dallagio: well lex
[12:08]  Mirella Dallagio: if one takes such an important decision “because someone say them so”
[12:08]  Mirella Dallagio: that’s not a nice start
[12:08]  Teague Wirefly: if someone has questions – do you know them well enough to enter that contract already?
[12:08]  Vannesh Cannoli: I don’t think you need a collar to have a scene, if that’s what you’re suggesting
[12:08]  Ali Akami: the problem is all the reading is jsut words untill one experiecnes it
[12:09]  Ali Akami: I would rather they experience it with me than some wanna be Dom/me
[12:09]  Teague Wirefly: i was with My Love several weeks before he offered me his collar
[12:09]  Lex Berchot: oh I agree Mir, it really made me and vanni raise our eyebrows. And it really seemed her only agrument … which ……. as you pointed out .. it not only .. not a nice start .. but very wrong.
[12:09]  Teague Wirefly: and – i had a training collar for over a month before we had our formal collaring ceremony
[12:09]  Ali Akami: well that’s why i clarified and said training collar
[12:09]  Sammy Thielt: as extreme as it is, I think Ali is more on the right course… If you want to encourage more dommes, I think the playing is more important than stuffy notecards filled with philosophies, definitions, and concepts.
[12:09]  Mirella Dallagio: thats what I was pouting about lex
[12:10]  Lex Berchot: gotcha 🙂
[12:10]  Mirella Dallagio: if one says she wants a sub for that reason … she needs a collar
[12:10]  Mirella Dallagio: or a cage
[12:10]  Lyssa Varun: I have to agree that the play is much more useful for finding out what it is they want out of it
[12:10]  Mirella Dallagio: well sammy, that’s a way if one has *also* a sub nature
[12:10]  Ali Akami: i have long wished that there was some sort fo certification ot be called a Dom/me and not just type the title * chukles*
[12:10]  Mirella Dallagio: it wouldn’t be viable for me
[12:11]  Lyssa Varun: no they definitely aren’t
[12:12]  Lyssa Varun: but it’s a one foot in front of the other thing too… you can’t really enter into a more formal D/s relationship without having some idea of what your needs and desires are in that arrangement
[12:12]  Sammy Thielt: I might, say suggest the potential domme come with me to a bdsm hangout, or maybe even invite them to spend some time in the comapny of me and my girls (and i dont necessarily mean in a sexual way). Showing by example.
[12:12]  Vannesh Cannoli: So I think putting a collar on someone, forcing them to kneel and “obey” or putting them on a rack or whatever is not really going to show them what being *domme* is
[12:12]  Vannesh Cannoli: That’s a good thing I think, Miss.
[12:12]  Teague Wirefly: no – forcing someone to act out a scene is just that… showing them a top/bottom scene
[12:13]  Teague Wirefly: but d/s is a relationship
[12:13]  Vannesh Cannoli: Actually, I think watching a Dom/me act more informally with the subs is a great lesson
[12:13]  Lyssa Varun: being a sub may be good as a learning experience but I don’t see it as anything of a requirement
[12:13]  Ali Akami: not talking about scening
[12:13]  Sammy Thielt: If I was a sub meeting a potential domme that showed interest, perhaps showing them respect and using the more common rules of etiquette would make them feel more in the role. simply kneeling to them might bring them many happy feelings. 🙂
[12:13]  Lyssa Varun: that’s a good idea
[12:13]  Lyssa Varun: although with someone knowldgeable who can point out problems
[12:13]  Lyssa Varun giggles
[12:13]  Lyssa Varun: (sp)
[12:13]  Teague Wirefly: as someone who is new to this – i was very vanilla and came into this world with all the stereo types firmly in my mind
[12:14]  Teague Wirefly: the leather, the whips, the very submissive sub and the overpowering dom/me
[12:14]  Ali Akami nods ” as was I ”
[12:14]  Lyssa Varun: I can’t believe what I see sometimes when I watch
[12:14]  Lyssa Varun giggles
[12:14]  Teague Wirefly: and it has been through classes
[12:14]  Teague Wirefly: and experience
[12:14]  Teague Wirefly: and seeing how MY Love treats me
[12:14]  Teague Wirefly: and how other dom/mes treat theirs
[12:15]  Teague Wirefly: that i have learned what is actually a good and true representation of d/s lifestyle
[12:15]  Vannesh Cannoli: nodsnods
[12:15]  Teague Wirefly: and what is just some jerk that wrote dom on their title
[12:15]  Mirella Dallagio: while others have learned less fortunate ways
[12:15]  Mirella Dallagio: we heard them many times
[12:15]  Teague Wirefly: and needs to feel important in their own life
[12:15]  Mirella Dallagio: people that discovered power “exchange” by very bad examples
[12:15]  Mirella Dallagio: and believed they were the only reasonable ones
[12:15]  Teague Wirefly: not caring about the sub(s) they collect along the way
[12:16]  Ali Akami growls
[12:16]  Ali Akami: true subs are so preciuos – i go nuts when I see them being taken advnatage
[12:16]  Vannesh Cannoli: I’m always very wary of “collectors”
[12:17]  Lex Berchot: you know, speaking of jerks .. I am always very wary of Dom/mes who have “True Dom/Master/Lord”.
[12:17]  Vannesh Cannoli: one Domme wanted me to #8 in her growing harem once
[12:17]  Mirella Dallagio: I am sorry I must dash RL … wish you all continuing to enjoy the good conversation
[12:17]  Teague Wirefly: i have one better….
[12:17]  Vannesh Cannoli: Take Care Miss Mir 🙂
[12:17]  Teague Wirefly: i was at a class this week…
[12:17]  Lyssa Varun: bye Mirella 🙂
[12:17]  Ali Akami: take care Mirella
[12:17]  Sammy Thielt: so what other ways can we encourage or help potential dom/mes we come across ?
[12:17]  Lex Berchot: bye Miss Mir 🙂
[12:17]  Teague Wirefly: afterward – the instructor said they wanted to talk to me…
[12:17]  Teague Wirefly: when the person tp’d me…
[12:18]  Teague Wirefly: they tried to dom me right then!
[12:18]  Teague Wirefly: i knew them for an hour
[12:18]  Velicia Llewellyn: >.<
[12:18]  Teague Wirefly: i said…
[12:18]  Teague Wirefly: well – as a wise teacher just told me… i am well within my rights to say…
[12:18]  Teague Wirefly: i may be submissive
[12:18]  Teague Wirefly: but i’m not YOUR submissive
[12:19]  Lex Berchot nodsnodsnodsnodsnodsnodsnodsnods
[12:19]  Teague Wirefly: i couldn’t believe it
[12:19]  Teague Wirefly: an hour of what a dom/me should and shouldn’t do
[12:19]  Teague Wirefly: and then broke every rule in less than 2 mins
[12:19]  Vannesh Cannoli: “Do as I say, not as I teach!”
[12:19]  Teague Wirefly: lol – sexactly
[12:19]  Teague Wirefly: it was sad
[12:19]  Lex Berchot: As a great philosopher once said, oh, puh-leeeeeeeze! 😉
[12:20]  Ali Akami: i think a big part of the problem when discussing this topic is the words used – like “Master” can be used in a scene and in a relationship
[12:20]  Ali Akami: i think people forget the real meaning of the words
[12:20]  Velicia Llewellyn nods at Ali
[12:20]  Lex Berchot: hmm for me Miss Ali, I only ever call the person who really collared me (not counting a play collar) Mistress.
[12:21]  Velicia Llewellyn: Mine doesn’t even like being called Mistress.
[12:21]  Vannesh Cannoli: I think another thing Miss would be to encourage the Dom/me to hang out at BDSM places and start to talk to subs and slaves
[12:21]  Vannesh Cannoli: And have the potential Dom/me talk to them about what they want and don’t want
[12:21]  Lex Berchot nods at Velicia
[12:21]  Vannesh Cannoli: too many people just jump in without talk
[12:21]  Velicia Llewellyn nodsnods at Vanni
[12:21]  Lyssa Varun: oh and don’t forget about emoting lessons 😉
[12:22]  Ali Akami: and I think We need some D/s places – they are NOT the same
[12:22]  Velicia Llewellyn: Heeee yes Lysssa
[12:22]  You decline Circe – Club (Sin-Labs) from A group member named Kumi Itoku.
[12:22]  Vannesh Cannoli: but that would help to refine some of the ideas…and then the Dom/me could do some informal scenes with some of the willing subs
[12:23]  Vannesh Cannoli: I don’t think I’d ever tell a potential Dom/me to say “OK, go grab a sub and go for it!”…that’s a recipie for disaster…like telling a potential sub to “just do it!” without some basic ideas and talking to others
[12:23]  Vannesh Cannoli: But, as has been pointed out…at some point theory starts and one *needs* to get practice
[12:23]  Lyssa Varun: sort of like skydiving 😉
[12:23]  Lex Berchot: LOL
[12:23]  Ali Akami: yet that happens all the time Vanni
[12:23]  Vannesh Cannoli: *theory stops
[12:24]  Sammy Thielt: I think that suggestion would be safe, if we’re talking about a simple top/bottom session.
[12:24]  Ali Akami: too many are in the movement jsut for the play aspect
[12:25]  Teague Wirefly: but – even then – they need to know basics – like safewords and limits
[12:25]  Vannesh Cannoli: Exactly Ali
[12:25]  Vannesh Cannoli: which is fine, but it’s not D/s
[12:25]  Sammy Thielt: If the potential domme has a sub already in mind, we could give them some starter suggestions too. perhaps asking the sub to get into some routines, set some rules.
[12:25]  Ali Akami: rigth
[12:25]  Teague Wirefly: the sub needs to know that they don’t have to do everything the top/dom wants
[12:26]  Teague Wirefly: both sides have ‘rules’ and guidelines – and as a new person – i didn’t realize that at first
[12:26]  Teague Wirefly: i thought if you were submitting – you just did what they said… – again – the vanilla person looking at the stereotype
[12:26]  Sammy Thielt: i agree vanni, but I dont want to limit this to -only- the more formal D/s most of us enjoy. I learned a LOT in my early days from… less formal play 🙂
[12:26]  Vannesh Cannoli: Speaking only for myself…if a potential Dom/me didn’t have a notion of what a power exchange is all about..I would under no circumstances do anything with that Dom/me other than be respectful…certainly nothing formal or even informal
[12:28]  Vannesh Cannoli: Oh I agree Miss…but too many people seem to think that being a “master” at kinky sex play is what being a “great dom/me” is all about…and that’s just one part that some subs don’t even want.
[12:29]  Sammy Thielt: if the topic is “learning to be a dom/me” … and the intent is to get more dom/mes into the mix (as suggested from what lex said about the way the topic came up at the cellar) … let’s be broad in what we consider acceptable. Sometimes, good things come from less-than-formal play.
[12:29]  Vannesh Cannoli: wb Miss MIr
[12:29]  Ali Akami: well back to something I said earlier. I have always been dominering. so D/s was very attractive to me. I studied. I read everything I could get my hands on. But they were all just words and the result was a lot of bad D/s relationships. then I wore a collar and saw the other side. that made everything clear
[12:29]  Mirella Dallagio: ty
[12:29]  Velicia Llewellyn nods at Vanni “I can top a scene fine, but I’m not near assertive enough in a relationship to really be a Dominant”
[12:30]  Lex Berchot: welcome back Mir 🙂
[12:30]  Lyssa Varun: that can be a good learning experience but still I don’t think it’s mandatory
[12:30]  Mirella Dallagio: personally, no offence, ali, my reaction is you can take the collar for yourself
[12:30]  Mirella Dallagio: I know it would be a great experience
[12:30]  Ali Akami: no not mandatory – but then very little is other than taxes
[12:30]  Mirella Dallagio: but it’s not mine
[12:30]  Mirella Dallagio: smiply
[12:30]  Lyssa Varun giggles
[12:31]  Mirella Dallagio: you can’t just tell to one with dom nature ‘act as sub and pay toll to see what you are’
[12:31]  Mirella Dallagio: that’s good for a switch
[12:31]  Mirella Dallagio: not for someone that is not sub
[12:31]  Lyssa Varun: that’s where a mentor who has been on both sides of the fence can be useful perhaps too
[12:31]  Ali Akami: yes
[12:32]  Lyssa Varun: or actually talking to others with experience
[12:32]  Mirella Dallagio: to me, it’s a huge wall
[12:32]  Mirella Dallagio: being there things I won’t never experience, and I can just guess
[12:32]  Sammy Thielt: what I dont like is that you might come across a potential domme, and discourage them by promoting your ideal of a formal D/s relationship. We should act fairly neutral and give advice that leads to a good learning experience for the potential domme.
[12:32]  Mirella Dallagio: it’s harder to learn than by direct experience
[12:32]  Lyssa Varun: that’s a good point as they may not even desire a formal arrangement
[12:33]  Sammy Thielt: tell them ways to keep play safe, but not strictly define what they “should” be going after.
[12:33]  Lyssa Varun: but that gets into the Top/bottom thing vs. D/s
[12:33]  Sammy Thielt: right lyssa, so we ask the potential domme questions to find out
[12:33]  Mirella Dallagio: playing a scene is a good way to find out some traits of your nature
[12:33]  Mirella Dallagio: it doesn’t define them all
[12:33]  Vannesh Cannoli: I think it also depends on what both sides are looking for
[12:34]  Mirella Dallagio: yet, it can show you some things that you like or definately dislike
[12:34]  Mirella Dallagio: I can’t stand humiliation for example
[12:34]  Lyssa Varun: so it would be useful to learn how T/b works to learn how that fits into D/s
[12:34]  Mirella Dallagio: and I discovered that in scenes
[12:34]  Mirella Dallagio: not in relationships
[12:34]  Vannesh Cannoli: if all a person is looking for is to get in a scene as a Bottom, then having informal times with Dom/mes is great
[12:34]  Lex Berchot: wouldn’t that much depend on the type of humiliation?
[12:34]  Mirella Dallagio: (giving humiliation I mean … receiving … better not to try )
[12:34]  Ali Akami: but We’re doing it again how exactly are BDSM Scenes and D/s lifestyle connected?
[12:35]  Lyssa Varun: there are degrees of humiliation too 🙂
[12:35]  Ali Akami: I think only becuase of poor wording
[12:35]  Lex Berchot: personally I think humiliation is one of the things in BDSM that is highly and greatly misunderstood.
[12:35]  Ali Akami: I rarely scenes does that mean I am not in the D/s life style?
[12:35]  Vannesh Cannoli: Well Ali, a “scene” is anything between a Top and a Bottom that is consensually agreed upon
[12:35]  Ali Akami: ok i can buy that definition
[12:35]  Vannesh Cannoli: for example, I would say a “scene” that Miss Sammy and I do is me kneeling at her feet for a few hours chatting with her
[12:36]  Ali Akami: yes
[12:36]  Vannesh Cannoli: and being attentive to her needs and desires
[12:36]  Teague Wirefly: i think that when a person is curious enough to begin asking questions – and learning about the lifestyle… they know if they have dom or sub tendancices
[12:36]  Ali Akami: i agree fully with that
[12:36]  Mirella Dallagio: when I landed in SL I didn’t know
[12:36]  Mirella Dallagio: then, interacting
[12:36]  Mirella Dallagio: I “remembered”
[12:36]  Mirella Dallagio: parts of my personality
[12:37]  Mirella Dallagio: connected them together
[12:37]  Mirella Dallagio: and understood them under this perspective
[12:37]  Mirella Dallagio: also
[12:37]  Teague Wirefly: when i came in – i didn’t go looking for someone to domme…. i knew my primary role would be submissive. but – in playing with others – my domme side woke up
[12:37]  Mirella Dallagio: I found explanation to*other* sides of my personality
[12:37]  Mirella Dallagio: that are natural in the context I have found about D/s for me
[12:38]  Vannesh Cannoli: Well as we’ve said Teague, there is no “right way” to do anything in BDSM
[12:38]  Vannesh Cannoli: in fact, that infuriates me, when people say “You’re doing it wrong”
[12:38]  Teague Wirefly: very true… and boy am i glad for it 🙂
[12:38]  Sammy Thielt: it’s easy to give advice to potential dommes when they seek things you are similarly interested in – that comes naturalyl from own experience. but how do you all handle others that have dom/me interests that maybe you don’t like?
[12:38]  Ali Akami: mmhmmmm
[12:38]  Mirella Dallagio: well. possibly there are some ways that are definately wrong ?
[12:38]  Teague Wirefly: what is right for some…. i have found would not be right for me. and i’m sure vice versa
[12:38]  Vannesh Cannoli: like what?
[12:38]  Mirella Dallagio: can we say what does *not* make a good dom/me ?
[12:39]  Ali Akami: abuse of the power exchange
[12:39]  Ali Akami: is so wrong
[12:39]  Vannesh Cannoli: but that’s not D/s anymore, that abuse
[12:39]  Sammy Thielt: a new domme would have no idea what that means though
[12:39]  Ali Akami: true
[12:39]  Teague Wirefly: someone that is in it only for themselves… that has no desire to care for or serve the sub
[12:40]  Teague Wirefly: that would be a bad dom
[12:40]  Sammy Thielt: lets use “laymans terms”
[12:40]  Ali Akami: then that’s not nutruing
[12:40]  Vannesh Cannoli: *abuse* is wrong on every level….anything consensual and mutual between a Dom/me and the sub is fine (well provided it’s legal that is)
[12:40]  Teague Wirefly: someone that tries to manipulate the sub
[12:40]  Vannesh Cannoli: that’s abuse
[12:40]  Vannesh Cannoli: in for yourself is abuse
[12:40]  Teague Wirefly: yes
[12:40]  Teague Wirefly: as is manipulation
[12:41]  Lex Berchot: isn’t “legal” a pretty dodgey term ?
[12:41]  Mirella Dallagio: depends on the judge, lex
[12:41]  Vannesh Cannoli: well it depends on your juruisdiction I guess
[12:41]  Teague Wirefly: lol
[12:41]  Vannesh Cannoli: but I don’t reccommend doing things that are illegal (I teach criminology) 😛
[12:41]  Lex Berchot: ie markings 😛
[12:41]  Lex Berchot: consenting to be beaten?
[12:42]  Ali Akami: some subs want that
[12:42]  Vannesh Cannoli: That’s not illegal in my jurisidction
[12:42]  Lex Berchot: it is in the UK.
[12:42]  Vannesh Cannoli: I can’t speak for yours
[12:42]  Vannesh Cannoli: Well then either 1) don’t do it or 2) make sure you keep it all hush hush lol
[12:42]  Ali Akami: hehe
[12:43]  Lyssa Varun: and clean up 😉
[12:43]  Ali Akami: so that’s what a gag is for!
[12:43]  Lyssa Varun giggles
[12:43]  Vannesh Cannoli: but I think we all understand enough of bdsm to know there is a difference between consensual hard scenes and abuse
[12:43]  Teague Wirefly: a bad dom is one that doesn’t get to know the sub first – know their limits – know what possible negative reactions could result in a certain style of play
[12:43]  Lyssa Varun tugs at her bad day skirt
[12:43]  Vannesh Cannoli gigles
[12:43]  Lex Berchot: UK law does not recognize the ability to consent .. while they are getting more lenient towards it,.. and won’t come down on you like a ton of bricks … it is technically still illegal. (for those interested have a look at Operation Spanner and the resulting Spanner-case)
[12:43]  Lyssa Varun giggles
[12:43]  Sammy Thielt: mhmm so what are some examples of real abuse here in SL BDSM relationships or scenes?
[12:44]  Teague Wirefly: doms that are collectors and don’t spend any real time with their subs
[12:44]  Sammy Thielt: just looking for a few general things to tell potential dommes that they must avoid doing
[12:44]  Teague Wirefly: because they are out looking for new people to add to the harem
[12:44]  Ali Akami: well you know sometimes abuse comes from things not done
[12:44]  Vannesh Cannoli: Pushing a scene past what has been mutually agreed upon…and not stopping when a safeword comes up
[12:45]  Sammy Thielt: finally! someone mentioens safeword concepts
[12:45]  Vannesh Cannoli: and on the other side, a sub *not* safewording when they should…that’s abusive to themselves and the dom/me
[12:45]  Sammy Thielt: been waiting to hear that all day… safewording IS the key concept we have to explain to new dommes.
[12:46]  Teague Wirefly: doms that are on a power trip and are just mean/rude/disrespectful to their subs. and – i’m not talking about because the sub likes it (humilation.) i’m talking about just total lack of respect
[12:46]  Teague Wirefly: i agree vanni
[12:46]  Vannesh Cannoli: yes safewords are essential
[12:46]  Sammy Thielt: i’m actually a tad disappointed no one brought it up earlier 🙂
[12:46]  Vannesh Cannoli: Subs using their dommes as vibrators is abusive as well
[12:47]  Mirella Dallagio: only if there is not consent by the domme vanny 🙂
[12:47]  Vannesh Cannoli: no, I mean thinking their Dom/me is just there to give them kinky sex at the sub’s demand
[12:47]  Vannesh Cannoli: that’s abuse
[12:47]  Mirella Dallagio: yes it definately is
[12:48]  Vannesh Cannoli: and a *lot* of subs out there think that’s what being a sub is
[12:48]  Vannesh Cannoli: at least here in SL
[12:48]  Vannesh Cannoli: in RL a sub like that would find him/herself isolated pretty quick
[12:48]  Sammy Thielt: so lets turn it around into advice for the potential domme…. Are we saying they should fear being used as a “vibrator”?
[12:49]  Lyssa Varun: guard against it perhaps… not fear
[12:49]  Mirella Dallagio: when the sub says “setting #3”, then they should worry
[12:49]  Lyssa Varun giggles
[12:49]  Teague Wirefly: lolol
[12:50]  Vannesh Cannoli: well Miss, are we talking about the person being a Top or a real Dom/me?
[12:50]  Sammy Thielt: yes
[12:50]  Jenn Zaks: it is difficult when making generalizations – all subs want to be punished, all subs use their Dom/me
[12:50]  Vannesh Cannoli: if the person is just interested in topping, there’s nothing wrong with that since that’s what he/she wants
[12:50]  Lex Berchot blinks at Jenn…
[12:50]  Lex Berchot: uhm … *no*
[12:50]  Teague Wirefly: brb
[12:50]  Vannesh Cannoli: if the person wants a relationship with the sub…then yes that needs to be guarded against
[12:50]  Lex Berchot: or am I just failing and was that an example of generalisation?
[12:51]  Sammy Thielt: I dont think we’re limiting this to scene vs formal relationship. …. because a potential domme almost always would go for a scene first… to try it out.
[12:51]  Jenn Zaks: it was
[12:51]  Jenn Zaks: grins
[12:51]  Lex Berchot shutsup .. pushes a ballgag in and hides under the carpet.
[12:51]  Lyssa Varun giggles
[12:51]  Ali Akami: hehe
[12:51]  Lex Berchot: the failsub haz arrived! 😉
[12:51]  Lex Berchot: sorry Jenn 🙂
[12:52]  Vannesh Cannoli: well…hmm…then I guess the advice would be “have fun with subbies now, but if you want a relationship you want a *relationship*, not just have subs coming for kinky sex on demand”
[12:52]  Ali Akami whipers ” sorry have to leave another engagement . thanks for a great chat!’
[12:53]  Vannesh Cannoli: ciao ali!
[12:53]  Mirella Dallagio: bye ali
[12:53]  Teague Wirefly: back
[12:53]  Sammy Thielt: very nice way to put it, vanni. 🙂
[12:54]  Vannesh Cannoli: Thank you Miss 🙂
[12:54]  Vannesh Cannoli: but…patterns started early tend to continue
[12:54]  Vannesh Cannoli could give a lecture on socialization and “return to the familiar” here
[12:54]  Lex Berchot: lol
[12:54]  Vannesh Cannoli: Friend coming in 🙂
[12:55]  Vannesh Cannoli: Disa, long long time no see!
[12:55]  Disa Korobase: Hello hello!
[12:55]  Lyssa Varun: hi Disa 🙂
[12:55]  Sammy Thielt: I know just how much it’s against your nature to aid potential dommes that might only show interest in kinky sex or informal play. You can be downright snobby! 😉
[12:55]  Lyssa Varun giggles
[12:55]  Disa Korobase: It’s been months I know V.
[12:55]  Lex Berchot grins at Miss Sammy.
[12:56]  Vannesh Cannoli: welcome to the Kinkster Munch!
[12:56]  Disa Korobase: thank you….
[12:56]  Mirella Dallagio: hello Disa
[12:56]  Disa Korobase: my quite the crowd
[12:56]  Lex Berchot: Hey Disa!
[12:56]  Disa Korobase: well I’ll just be quiet and lsiten
[12:56]  Vannesh Cannoli: feel free to have a seat 🙂
[12:59]  Vannesh Cannoli: Well anyway, yes at some point the theory of being a Dom/me has to be moved by action…and of course that may very well involve doing some/many informal scenes with others
[13:00]  Vannesh Cannoli: but I also know several Dom/mes that moved into that relationship with a single other and are very happy toether months/years down the road
[13:00]  Vannesh Cannoli: since they found together what worked together so well
[13:00]  Lex Berchot nods
[13:01]  Lex Berchot: That’s really what it is … find what works for the people involved in the relationship and roll with that 😉
[13:01]  Lyssa Varun: that goes back to identifying their current circumstances… do they have a partner that’s wanting to explore this with them?
[13:01]  Teague Wirefly: are there any here that have a strong sl relationship – and have or plan to take it to rl?
[13:01]  Sammy Thielt: So its more important to give advice that lets them play safe, rather than prescribe what they should be after.
[13:02]  Lyssa Varun: safety is job 1
[13:02]  Lyssa Varun giggles
[13:02]  Teague Wirefly: lol
[13:03]  Vannesh Cannoli: prescribing “what they should be after” is rather useless, and gets back to the “right” way to do BDSM
[13:03]  Vannesh Cannoli: saying “these are some things to look for and to watch out for” is a good idea
[13:03]  Sammy Thielt: advice like: what it means to use safewords, importance of honesty and discussion of what both domme and sub are looking for, advise them to not do this only for their own itnerests, but to play/relate for mutual enjoyment.
[13:04]  Vannesh Cannoli: Heck, if a Dom/me enjoys their sub coming around, screaming for kinky sex NOW, and TPing out the second it’s over, only to come back the next day to repeat the pattern, goddess bless that dom/me :
[13:04]  Vannesh Cannoli: nods nods all good ideas Miss
[13:04]  Jenn Zaks: grins
[13:05]  Mirella Dallagio: “setting #2”?
[13:05]  Sammy Thielt: also letting them know that no matter what they are feeling, many people feel the same way… .and there are places where they can go, like BDSM forums and clubs, to meet the same.
[13:06]  Vannesh Cannoli: Welcome, Timm!
[13:06]  Timm Fall: Hi all,—
[13:06]  Mirella Dallagio: hello
[13:06]  Teague Wirefly: hello 🙂
[13:07]  Vannesh Cannoli: Also good ideas Miss 🙂
[13:07]  Sammy Thielt: oh, and that the leather-spiked dominatrix image with whips and a rack is a stereotype, but it can be found if thats what they want. 😉
[13:07]  Scorpion AMMUNITION setting is ORBIT.
[13:08]  Vannesh Cannoli: heh heh
[13:08]  Vannesh Cannoli: or at least paid for!
[13:08]  Timm Fall: Vannesh, do i disturb your session ?
[13:08]  Vannesh Cannoli: not at all, it’s sort of near the end and winding down
[13:08]  Timm Fall: 😉
[13:09]  Vannesh Cannoli: we’ve been talking about if dominance is an inborn trait or something learned, or both
[13:09]  Vannesh Cannoli: and what advice to give people interested in being a dom/me
[13:09]  Timm Fall: interesting…… think: both
[13:10]  Sammy Thielt: do any of the subs here feel they couldnt talk with a potential domme and get them them moving in the right direction ? Frankly being that subs often outnumber dommes, its you that would eb running into them more often… and its in your interests to get more dommes into the mix. 😉
[13:10]  Vannesh Cannoli: that’s sort of what we decided…it’s something within, but can be bettered with time and practice
[13:11]  Lyssa Varun: without gettig a collar slapped on us you mean? 😉
[13:11]  Lyssa Varun giggles
[13:11]  Lex Berchot: lol.
[13:11]  Mirella Dallagio: just cuffs lyssa
[13:11]  Sammy Thielt: heh exactly… without implying to that domme that -you- will play with them 🙂
[13:11]  Jenn Zaks: smiles
[13:12]  Lyssa Varun: I know I can talk to them about it… others?
[13:12]  Jenn Zaks: nods
[13:12]  Lex Berchot: hmm, it’s hard to say, I can talk and put my ideas forward about what I would like and want. If they listen and want to do anything about them is largely up to them.
[13:13]  Velicia Llewellyn: I’m going to have to run all, I have plans today, and I should really get something to eat before.
[13:13]  Lex Berchot: take care sis 🙂
[13:13]  Lyssa Varun: I can even talk to them about it in third person 😉
[13:13]  Vannesh Cannoli: yeah….and many think they have the answers already and don’t want to listen to much
[13:13]  Lyssa Varun giggles
[13:13]  Velicia Llewellyn waves
[13:13]  Mirella Dallagio: cu vel !
[13:13]  Vannesh Cannoli: take care Vel, wonderful to see you 🙂
[13:13]  Sammy Thielt: cya vel
[13:13]  Lyssa Varun: bye Vel 🙂
[13:15]  Lyssa Varun and a hush fell over the room
[13:15]  Sammy Thielt: any subs here in a situation where you yourself want to try a domme role? or any dom/me here that have something they want to learn or talk about?
[13:15]  Vannesh Cannoli: then you always get into the dreaded “topping from below”
[13:15]  Lyssa Varun: bottom seat Topping 😉
[13:15]  Lex Berchot names herself “Top of the Bottoms” 😉
[13:15]  Vannesh Cannoli: heh heh heh
[13:16]  Lex Berchot: more seriously though ….
[13:16]  Jenn Zaks: tried Domme role…..
[13:16]  Lex Berchot: no, I don’t want to try a Domme .. or n my view a Top role. I have done it a couple of times adn find it too exhausting, it literally drains me on several levels
[13:17]  Jenn Zaks: did not have the right clothes
[13:17]  Lex Berchot: s|try a|try to|
[13:17]  Lex Berchot: lol Jenn
[13:17]  Vannesh Cannoli: is that old english?
[13:18]  Teague Wirefly: Thank you for the discussion -I enjoyed it very much. However, I must go now. Nice to meet you all
[13:18]  Vannesh Cannoli: take care, hope to see you in two weeks 🙂
[13:18]  Teague Wirefly: ty 🙂
[13:18]  Lex Berchot: nice of you to come by Teague, hopefully see you in two weeks.
[13:18]  Mirella Dallagio: bye bye teague
[13:18]  Jenn Zaks: thank Vannesh, great discussion
[13:18]  Teague Wirefly: bye – and – yes – i hope to be here
[13:18]  Sammy Thielt: take care teague
[13:19]  Strider Wisent: thanks for the discussion
[13:19]  Vannesh Cannoli: Take care STrider
[13:20]  Mirella Dallagio: Hiya girl
[13:20]  Strider Wisent: ok
[13:20]  Vannesh Cannoli: 🙂
[13:20]  Vannesh Cannoli: heading out for the evening Miss Mir?
[13:20]  Lyssa Varun: whips or floggers… which says “down on your knees!” 😉
[13:20]  Mirella Dallagio: RL you mean ?
[13:20]  Lyssa Varun giggles
[13:20]  Sammy Thielt: good job vanni. thank you for leading that.
[13:20]  Vannesh Cannoli: Thank you Miss 🙂
[13:20]  Mirella Dallagio: 10.30pm right now
[13:20]  Jenn Zaks: jzrelease
[13:21]  Vannesh Cannoli: RL or SL 🙂
[13:21]  Lex Berchot smacks Lyssa’s backside
[13:21]  Mirella Dallagio: no plans yet
[13:21]  Vannesh Cannoli: Well that was a wonderful talk 🙂
[13:21]  Lyssa Varun: another good session Vanni… and well handled the attempt to steer this in a bad direction earlier 😉
[13:21]  Lyssa Varun giggles
[13:21]  Vannesh Cannoli: grrr
[13:21]  Vannesh Cannoli: “You will bow before the True God”
[13:21]  Jenn Zaks: yes well done
[13:22]  Mirella Dallagio: I was going to steer him personally
[13:22]  Sammy Thielt: shut down the God train 🙂
[13:22]  Vannesh Cannoli: does he have a “Pimp Master” bubble over His head/
[13:22]  Vannesh Cannoli: reset
[13:22]  Jenn Zaks: he wonders why he can’t dom all women – hum – let me think
[13:22]  Lyssa Varun: omg
[13:22]  Mirella Dallagio: maybe because some understand he’s an idiot ?
[13:23]  Jenn Zaks: yes
[13:23]  Sammy Thielt: you mean “God put me here to dom you” isnt a good pickup line ?
[13:23]  Lyssa Varun giggles
[13:23]  Vannesh Cannoli: oh it would always work for me!
[13:23]  Mirella Dallagio: I make it simpler sammy
[13:23]  Lex Berchot: depends on the person saying that line!
[13:23]  Mirella Dallagio: one can disagree but
[13:23]  Jenn Zaks: after a moment to reflect – no
[13:23]  Mirella Dallagio: I simply say “God” is not a good line
[13:23]  Sammy Thielt: lol
[13:24]  Jenn Zaks: hello or your pretty work much better
[13:24]  Sammy Thielt reaches forward and brushes her finger along vanni’s bangs.
[13:24]  Outrider -ZHAO II Women’s Casual Animation Overrider: Sit anywhere: Off
[13:24]  Vannesh Cannoli: “God told me to gag you, as women should not talk back”…etc….
[13:24]  Vannesh Cannoli smiles happily
[13:24]  Lex Berchot giggles
[13:24]  Mirella Dallagio pouts on vanni’s rug
[13:25]  Vannesh Cannoli: just don’t puke!
[13:25]  Mirella Dallagio: come here kitten
[13:25]  Mirella Dallagio: mmmmmmmh
[13:25]  Mirella Dallagio: so lovely
[13:25]  Lex Berchot: mmm hai 🙂
[13:26]  Jenn Zaks: thanks Vannish, great job waves bye to A/all
[13:26]  Vannesh Cannoli: Take care Jenn!
[13:26]  Lex Berchot: take care Jenn 🙂
[13:26]  Mirella Dallagio: bye bye
[13:26]  Vannesh Cannoli: ooo meresub!
[13:26]  Lyssa Varun giggles
[13:27]  Lex Berchot looks at Lyssa .. hmm latex mermaid?
[13:27]  Vannesh Cannoli: wow that looks great Lyssa 🙂
[13:27]  Lyssa Varun assumes her mersub position
[13:27]  Lyssa Varun: thanks 🙂
[13:27]  Vannesh Cannoli thinks I might have to put a bondage pool in the skybox 😛
[13:27]  Lyssa Varun: mer nadu
[13:28]  Lyssa Varun giggles
[13:28]  Lyssa Varun: oh you will… mer spank
[13:28]  Lyssa Varun giggles
[13:28]  Lex Berchot looks at Lyssa and ponders sushi
[13:28]  Sammy Thielt: a bondage pool… hmmm 🙂
[13:28]  Vannesh Cannoli: Idea for Zindra land, Miss?;)
[13:28]  Sammy Thielt: i’m not into watersports though
[13:28]  Lyssa Varun: lol
[13:28]  Vannesh Cannoli: ewwww
[13:29]  Vannesh Cannoli: well not the “wrong” kind…lol
[13:29]  Lyssa Varun: well not the usual kind people refer to that way 😉
[13:29]  Lyssa Varun giggles
[13:29]  Sammy Thielt: I meant like polo and such, geez you girls have pervy minds.
[13:29]  Sammy Thielt: 😛
[13:30]  Vannesh Cannoli: pole-O?
[13:30]  Vannesh Cannoli blinks
[13:30]  Vannesh Cannoli: OH
[13:30]  Vannesh Cannoli: never mind
[13:30]  Lex Berchot chases LYssa .. heeeeeereee fishyfishy
[13:30]  Vannesh Cannoli: eeeps!
[13:30]  Sammy Thielt: uhoh, this wont be pretty
[13:30]  Vannesh Cannoli: let me see your sushi chef licence
[13:31]  Vannesh Cannoli is reminded of the Johmn
[13:31]  Vannesh Cannoli: John Belushi “Samurai” skits on the old Saturday NIght Live
[13:31]  Outrider -ZHAO II Women’s Casual Animation Overrider: Sit anywhere: On
[13:31]  Sammy Thielt: do the neko and the merrow-folk of SL have epic battles ?
[13:32]  Lex Berchot: nah 🙂
[13:32]  Lex Berchot: I have been a merkitten at some point.
[13:32]  Lex Berchot: but it didn’t quite work out …
[13:32]  Mirella Dallagio: smile
[13:32]  Lex Berchot: I started to reallllly like myself
[13:32]  Mirella Dallagio: well
[13:32]  Vannesh Cannoli: “I made you dragon roll…but I atzed it”
[13:32]  Mirella Dallagio: time to leave for me
[13:33]  Lyssa Varun: I’z in ur oshun eat’n ur fishuz
[13:33]  Lex Berchot: \o/
[13:33]  Vannesh Cannoli: lol
[13:33]  Vannesh Cannoli: take care Miss MIr 🙂
[13:33]  Lex Berchot: take care Miss Mir, :))
[13:33]  Mirella Dallagio: and you all
[13:33]  Lyssa Varun: goodby Miss Mir 🙂
[13:33]  Sammy Thielt imagines dozens of nekos standing on the shore in a merfolk area…. swatting at the water surface w ith one paw.
[13:33]  Mirella Dallagio: Sammy, good to meet you again
[13:33]  Lyssa Varun: goodbye even
[13:33]  Lyssa Varun giggles
[13:33]  Sammy Thielt: take care Mirella
[13:33]  Lyssa Varun giggles
[13:33]  Mirella Dallagio: take care and be safe 🙂
[13:34]  Lyssa Varun: they may be gathered at the RFL event even now Miss Sammy
[13:34]  Sammy Thielt: mhmm 🙂
[13:34]  Lex Berchot: good munch Sis 🙂
[13:34]  Vannesh Cannoli: it was 🙂
[13:34]  Sammy Thielt: cease hostilities during the charity event 🙂
[13:35]  Vannesh Cannoli: it was considered a horrid breach of ethics to fight in Ancient Greece during the Olympic Games
[13:35]  Vannesh Cannoli: City States would declare a truce during the games
[13:36]  Vannesh Cannoli is a fountain of fairly useless knowledge that gets eaisly cross-referenced by everyday talk
[13:36]  Lex Berchot: lol
[13:37]  Sammy Thielt pokes vanni’s tummy ,as her shirt suggests.
[13:37]  Vannesh Cannoli eeeps and giggles!
[13:37]  Lex Berchot looks for a pointy stick
[13:38]  Lyssa Varun: I’m going to swish my tail off to the tree of life to help support the cause before the event ends at 2
[13:38]  Vannesh Cannoli looks at Lex and winks
[13:38]  Vannesh Cannoli: ok hon, good to see you 🙂
[13:38]  Sammy Thielt: take care lyssa 🙂
[13:38]  Lyssa Varun: and you… and good to see you too Miss Sammy and Lex
[13:38]  Lyssa Varun: see you soon 🙂
[13:38]  Lex Berchot: bye Lyssa 🙂 see you soon 🙂
[13:39]  Vannesh Cannoli: yep yep 🙂
[13:39]  Outrider -ZHAO II Women’s Casual Animation Overrider: Sit anywhere: Off
[13:39]  Lex Berchot: righty ho .. I am off as well 🙂
[13:39]  Lyssa Varun flops around under the floor spitting the bytes of a failed tp out of her mouth
[13:40]  Sammy Thielt: hehehehe
[13:40]  Lex Berchot: I think I am gonna look for a Domme on setting #11
[13:40]  Vannesh Cannoli: good seeing you Sis, catch you soon 🙂
[13:40]  Vannesh Cannoli: LOL
[13:40]  Sammy Thielt: cya soon lex 🙂
[13:40]  Lex Berchot: bye Miss Sammy 🙂 Bye Sis .. see you in … well a couple of hours 😉

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